The next is the transcript of an interview with Rafael Mariano Grossi, the director common of the Worldwide Atomic Vitality Company, that may air on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on June 28, 2025
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we go now to the Director Common of the Worldwide Atomic Vitality Company, or the IAEA. Director Common Rafael Mariano Grossi, welcome to this system.
DIRECTOR GENERAL RAFAEL MARIANO GROSSI: Thanks very a lot, Margaret. Good to speak to you once more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Director Common, there’s a lot taking place. I am hoping you possibly can stroll us by what you recognize. Iran’s international minister has mentioned that the harm to their nuclear amenities from the U.S. bombing is critical and severe. We all know Israel has additionally killed quite a few prime Iranian nuclear scientists. What precisely is Iran’s functionality at this second?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Effectively, sure, and I feel you possibly can choose and select any adjective to characterize this, however you will note that there’s an settlement in describing this as a really severe stage of injury. It may be, you recognize, described in several methods, however it’s clear that what occurred particularly in Fordo, Natanz, Isfahan, the place Iran used to have and nonetheless has, to a point, capabilities when it comes to remedy, conversion and enrichment of uranium have been destroyed to an vital diploma. Some remains to be standing. So there’s, after all, an vital setback when it comes to those- of these capabilities. That is- that is clear. And now the vital issue- the vital factor is, what are the subsequent steps? Now the characterization of the harm, I feel we will, you recognize, speculate, and nonetheless, till, after all, the Iranians themselves should go there and sift by the, you recognize, rubble and take a look at what’s the precise diploma of the harm. In some unspecified time in the future, the IAEA should return. Though our job is to not assess harm, however to re-establish the data of the actions that happen there, and the entry to the fabric, which may be very, crucial, the fabric that they are going to be producing in the event that they proceed with this exercise. That is contingent on different, you see, the whole lot is related. That is- that is contingent on negotiations which can or might not restart, so- so what we see this right here, I feel we now have a snapshot of- of- of a program which has been very critically broken, to cite Dr. Araghchi. And now what we have to deal with is on the subsequent steps.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You talked about there diplomacy. President Trump has been calling for diplomatic talks with Iran to settle all the problems across the nuclear program. I do know you had been in common contact with envoy Steve Witkoff. Are you speaking to him now? Will the IAEA be concerned in any settlement?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Effectively, sooner or later we should be, as a result of if his efforts, which I help wholeheartedly, succeed, it will come to a degree the place there’s some settlement, some understanding on issues that Iran will proceed doing, and a few issues the place there could possibly be an settlement on sure restrictions. And naturally, who’s going to confirm that’s the IAEA so because of this we’re in fixed contact. Now they should reconnect. And it isn’t going to be straightforward, one can think about, after the traumatic occasions that came about. Even for us, you will have seen that I wrote to Overseas Minister Araghchi just a few days in the past, instantly, I might say, after the cease-fire was thought of to be holding, and I mentioned to him that we must always maybe sit down and analyze in a gradual approach the reconnection, the modalities for the inspectors to go- to return. So there’s a stage the place the IAEA will not be concerned, and that is the direct dialog. What’s the deal? After which, after all, we can be connecting to make it possible for that deal stands and it is verifiable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However to that time, Tehran simply handed a regulation saying they need to droop cooperation with the IAEA inspectors. The international minister mentioned he had no plans to allow you to personally, Mr. Director Common, into the nation. Does that imply Iran will utterly block all inspectors? Do these you have already got within the nation have any entry?
GROSSI: Effectively, definitely I hope this isn’t the case. I feel that what the international minister mentioned is that they had been wanting into this regulation and the way this regulation would impression our actions. I feel it is time- because of this it is so vital that we sit down across the desk and we glance into this. Iran- and I feel no person has put that in query, and I hope no person will, is a celebration to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, like greater than 190 nations on the earth. So- so, that suggests that they must work with the- with the company. So we now have to go- we now have been going by this regulation that they’ve, that the Majles accredited, and we see that they’re speaking about cooperation on the premise of- of the safety and the security of their websites. I feel that isn’t incompatible with the inspection work that should happen. However after all, it isn’t Rafael Grossi and Margaret Brennan discussing this that we’re going to remedy it. I feel we- I’ve to take a seat down with- with- with Iran and look into this, as a result of on the finish of the day, this complete factor, after the navy strikes, should have an enduring resolution, which can’t be however a diplomatic one.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So they are not kicking- they are not kicking out your inspectors at this level?
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DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Not on this sense. I might not say that I’m wanting with curiosity and with some concern what they’ve accredited. However after all, it is their regulation. It’s their parliament. However you recognize, right here there are authorized implications. A world treaty, after all, takes priority. You can not invoke an inside regulation to not abide with a world treaty. However Iran will not be saying that for the time being, and I feel that is constructive. So because of this I feel we now have to go down into the small print, as a result of the work should proceed, in any other case no person could have an concept of what’s taking place in Iran. Iran will proceed with a nuclear program, the contours of that are nonetheless to be seen and can be I’m positive, a part of these negotiations, which I hope, can be resuming quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Iran formally reported weeks in the past that they had been going to take measures upfront of those strikes to attempt to shield their nuclear property. Did they share with the IAEA what these plans had been? The place they had been going to stash issues like centrifuges, the machines that assist enrich gasoline? The place they had been going to place the fuel canisters which have enriched uranium?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: No, no, they didn’t inform that- that to us, however on the identical time, there was no bodily time, maybe, to do it. Iran, for instance, had introduced to us that that they had a brand new enrichment facility in Isfahan, and we had been going to go on the thirteenth of June to- to examine on that facility so that- and the positioning has been severely broken and hit. So because of this I say it’s indispensable. We should, aggravation or not, emotions and feelings or not, there has to come back a degree with- with cool heads. We sit across the desk and- and see what- I imply, these protecting measures, after all, it is their proper to guard their property, like some other sovereign nation. They will, after all, protect- however they know and there are, I do not need to get too technical or legalese right here on this dialog, however there are provisions within the agreements we now have, not solely with Iran, with any- with any nation. If a rustic at a- at a second, feels that among the issues we examine have to be protected or no matter, they’ve to inform us, and we now have to go, and many others., and many others., as you possibly can think about. So, this might not occur due to the unfolding of the circumstances, of a navy battle the place, after all, you recognize, choices are taken and this isn’t deliberate or introduced, clearly. So now- now it is the time to reconnect and to speak and to speak to one another.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, however there was roughly 400 kilograms, which is slightly below 900 kilos, of extremely enriched uranium, earlier than the assaults. I do know these are in small canisters and comparatively straightforward to maneuver. Do you will have any concept the place that was moved, and if it was moved earlier than the assault?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: We presume, and I feel it’s- it is logical to presume that after they announce that they’re going to be taking protecting measures, this could possibly be a part of it. However, as I mentioned, we do not know the place this materials could possibly be, or if a part of it may have been, you recognize, beneath the assault throughout these 12 days. So some may have been destroyed as a part of the assault, however some may have been moved. So there needs to be sooner or later a clarification. If we do not get that clarification, it will proceed to be hanging, you recognize, over our heads as- as a possible downside. So because of this I say it is so vital, to start with, for Iran to permit our inspectors to proceed their indispensable work as quickly as attainable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, I ask you about what issues would possibly nonetheless stay, as a result of there’s that open query of may Iran dash in direction of a bomb even now, in the event that they needed to. If we do not know the place the extremely enriched uranium is and can’t account for all of the centrifuges, is that also a danger that they could possibly be dashing in direction of a bomb?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Effectively, you recognize, I- we do not need to be alarmists right here, and I do not need to be a part of, you recognize, a messaging that may be spreading, as I say, alarm. However we should be ready to determine, to verify what’s there, and the place is it and what occurred. Iran had a really huge formidable program, and a part of it could nonetheless be there, and if not, there’s additionally the self-evident fact that the data is there. The economic capability is there. Iran is a really subtle nation when it comes to nuclear expertise, as is apparent. So you can’t disinvent this. You can not undo the data that you’ve or the capacities that you’ve. It is an enormous nation, is not it? So I feel this must be the inducement that all of us should have to know that navy operations or not, you aren’t going to unravel this in a definitive approach militarily. You will have an settlement. You will have an inspection system that may give all people, all people within the area and- and- and elsewhere, the assurances that we can- we will undoubtedly flip the web page.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So up till proper earlier than the strikes, the IAEA nonetheless had inspectors, as I perceive it, going to a few of these websites. There’s been numerous focus right here in America on the vans and satellite tv for pc pictures of them outdoors of Fordo. What was taking place in these days earlier than the strike?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Effectively, as- as you had been pointing on the market were- there was an announcement of protecting measures that might have included transferring tools and materials. We do not know. We noticed the identical pictures that the entire world has seen of those vans, and we do not need to get into any rush conclusion about it, however it’s, it’s clear that we want the issues that we ignore, okay. And after an inexpensive interval, after the conflict, there needs to be a course of that should proceed. In any other case the uncertainties will proceed, will proceed to linger on. And that is, you recognize, in a last evaluation, not good, and maybe even stopping a superb settlement, as a result of who’s going to have an settlement the place you do not know what the counterpart actually has? What are the property that they actually have after the- after this- this- this navy marketing campaign that came about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So up till these strikes Iran- Iran was nonetheless disclosing data to the IAEA–
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: –Effectively sure, sure, sure, yes–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –-In sure amounts–
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: There have been deficits. There have been deficits, and we had been referring to these in the- within the sense that there have been some issues that they weren’t clarifying to us. However our inspection work was- was fixed. Particularly, on this delicate space of the variety of centrifuges and the quantity of fabric, we had excellent view. We did not have view on different issues that we needed to have. However on this one, it was- it was full. It was complete. And, after all, for the time being, there is- there’s nothing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, Iran wasn’t holding its stockpile of enriched uranium secret. The world was concerned–
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: –No–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –You mentioned you had been involved about it. What do you suppose it was meant for? And did you see something that prompt they had been trying to weaponize?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: They- let me be clear right here, as a result of we mentioned, to start with, one thing very, crucial. They’ve all these capabilities, however for the company, they- to start with, they did not have nuclear weapons. Okay? This must be mentioned. One can have an evaluation nationally that they had been shut, okay? And I do not get into that, as a result of we, the IAEA, doesn’t decide intentions. The IAEA seems to be on the actions of a rustic and reviews it to the world. So it’s nations that- that say, properly, that is of concern or not. What we had been concerning- what- what I used to be involved about is that there have been different issues that weren’t clear. For instance, we had discovered traces of uranium in some locations in Iran, which weren’t the traditional declared amenities. And we had been asking for years, why did we discover these traces of enriched uranium in place x, y or z? And we had been merely not getting credible solutions. If there was material- the place is that this materials? So there could possibly be much more. We do not know. For this reason it’s, I am sorry I am repeating it for the third time, I feel we have to return.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood, understood. However your assertion and that report that you just gave about a few of these open questions or unanswered questions, the Iranians are pointing to it now, and the international minister appears to be kind of blaming you for the navy strikes. He mentioned it wasn’t trustworthy and honest, your report. He mentioned, after the amenities, you did not even condemn the strikes- after the strikes, I ought to say. What do you make of these criticisms?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Effectively- I, to an extent, I perceive. They’ve been beneath assault. However, actually, who can imagine that this battle occurred due to a report of the IAEA? And, by the way in which, what was- what was in that report was not new, Margaret. We now have been saying that for a very long time, and in earlier reviews as properly. So, this- perhaps it is as a result of it is simpler, perhaps, to criticize a world group or a director common, I do not know, however it’s not cheap to say that. And, if something, the IAEA, as all the time, has had a really trustworthy evaluation of the state of affairs. And there have been many, I can guarantee you, there have been many that- that had been saying in your report, it’s essential to say that they’ve nuclear weapons, or they’re very near have nuclear weapons. And we did not. We merely did not, as a result of this was not what we had been seeing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you additionally mentioned you could not confirm that it was a peaceable program.
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Completely, as a result of we now have to see the whole lot.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: They did- we did not see them. We did not see a program that was aiming in that path, however on the identical time, they weren’t answering very, crucial questions that had been pending. So this is- that is the reality.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I admire the nuance right here, as a result of there’s a lot grey. Folks listed here are searching for readability, and there is confusion in the USA. CBS is reporting that the Protection Intelligence Company assesses Iran’s program was set again just a few months, however as soon as they dig out, they might resume in quite a few months. They must rebuild electrical and water provides. The CIA and the Nationwide Intelligence administrators say the amenities had been destroyed, and it could take years to rebuild. Israel says the navy program is about again a few years. What is the fact right here? What do you make of those assessments?
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: You realize- you recognize what, this hourglass strategy in weapons of mass destruction is- will not be a good suggestion. Bear in mind, we had circumstances 45 minutes and so forth, which had been quite- fairly off spot. All of that will depend on your metrics, Margaret. Should you inform me it’s going to take them two months or three months, for what?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: The capacities they’ve are there. They will have, you recognize, in a matter of months, I might say, just a few cascades of centrifuges spinning and producing enriched uranium, or lower than that. However as I mentioned, frankly talking, one can not declare that the whole lot has disappeared and there’s nothing there.
As a result of, to start with, as I- and I feel the intelligence- we aren’t there making any navy evaluations, to start with, however, out of the logic of our dialog, it’s clear that there was extreme harm, however it’s not complete harm, to start with. And secondly, Iran has the capacities there; industrial and technological capacities. So in the event that they so want, they may have the ability to begin doing this once more. That is again- and I am sorry, fourth time, we now have to return to the desk and have a technically sound resolution to this. In any other case, it will come hit us once more, when it comes to a state of affairs which isn’t properly clarified. And this is a chance. We do have a chance now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood, and we’ll see if that chance is picked up by both aspect. Director Common, thanks on your time at the moment.
DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Thanks, as all the time, a pleasure. Thanks very a lot.
